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Rep. Leo Biasiucci acknowledges there already are limits on the use of benefits in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP. Aside from the obvious — tobacco and alcohol — also off limits are vitamins, household needs such as paper products, and hygiene items like soap.

But the Lake Havasu City Republican says the whole purpose of the federally funded program is to supplement nutrition. So he is looking to write a list for food stamp purchases that mirrors what can now be bought by pregnant women, new mothers and their offspring in the Women, Infants and Children program.

And that list is far narrower than what can be bought with SNAP benefits.

The idea of new limits is getting panned by Senate Minority Leader Priya Sundareshan.

"It's paternalistic,'' said the Tucson Democrat.

She said there are better ways to encourage people to use their benefits to buy healthier items, like the Double Up Bucks program that essentially provides free money to buy things like fruits and vegetables.

Biasiucci, however, said he remains convinced that the government, which is funding the program, does have a role to play in ensuring the limited dollars — the average family benefit in Arizona is about $360 a month — are spent on the healthiest items.

The proposed legislation he plans to introduce in the next legislative session, which starts in January, isn't his first foray into the issue.

Biasiucci introduced a measure earlier this year designed to eliminate what he considers candy from the list of eligible purchases, defining that as any preparation of sugar, honey or other sweeteners in combination with chocolate, fruit, nuts or other flavoring to form a bar, drops or pieces. But Biasiucci dropped that idea after he concluded his definition did not distinguish between a breakfast protein bar and a chocolate bar.

He had better luck in getting colleagues to approve a measure to simply outlaw the use of food stamps to purchase sodas. But that ended up being vetoed by Democratic Gov. Katie Hobbs.

So that, Biasiucci said, leaves the idea of using the WIC purchase list — designed to be healthy for pregnant women and their children — as the basis for SNAP-eligible purchases.

"It is the essentials,'' he said, including fruit, vegetables, milk, baby formula and food, cereals and the like.  Biasiucci said using that as a template would be far easier than starting with what can now be purchased with food stamps and culling out what might be inappropriate.

Still, even he thinks the WIC list might be too restrictive.

WIC benefits, under federal regulations, cannot be used to purchase fresh meat, chicken or fish. Instead, the vouchers can buy things like canned tuna — but not solid white or Albacore, and not if it is packed in oil.

"I don't know why,'' Biasiucci said.

There are other things on the list that confound Biasiucci.

Recipients can buy bread — but only if it is whole wheat. Flour tortillas and pastas also have to be whole wheat.

There's a list of cold cereals that are permitted. Hot cereals are also OK, as long as they don't have added raisins, fruit or nuts.

Canned beans are also on the list — but not refried beans or baked beans.

"It's weird what they include and don't include,'' Biasiucci said.

What's "weird,'' however, may be in the eye of the beholder.

Consider Sen. Lauren Kuby.

"I have a plant-based diet and I'm vegan,'' said the Tempe Democrat. She said if the state is going to go down the path of deciding what is "healthy,'' perhaps it should eliminate some of the things that can now be purchased with SNAP and WIC benefits.

"WIC approves foods like milk and cheese and eggs,'' Kuby said. "That's not good for your diet in my mind.''

All that goes to the question of the government's role in making choices for people simply because they are receiving benefits.

"Why is it up to me to decide what's a healthy food and what's not?'' Kuby asked.

Sundareshan has similar questions.

"Who's making the decisions here?'' she said. "Is it the Legislature making this decision based on what we feel is the most healthful approach?''

There's the issue of sodas. They're permitted items with food stamps but not with WIC benefits. But Sundareshan said that ignores the fact that both programs do allow the purchase of juices, which she said can have as much sugar.

She said there are other problems with how lines are drawn — and who draws them. For example, Sundareshan noted that food stamps cannot be used to purchase prepared foods intended for immediate consumption that might be sold at grocery stores, such as hot deli sandwiches or hot soups.

"Maybe that is what someone needs right in that moment,'' she said.

And there are other issues that tie into all of this.

SNAP benefits can be used to purchase all kinds of cold cereals. Those include not just Frosted Flakes but also Fruity Pebbles, Count Chocula, and Lucky Charms.

"It has more sugar in it than a Coke,'' Kuby said.

The WIC list is more restrictive, though it does say recipients can buy Frosted Mini Wheats and Oatmeal Squares Brown Sugar.

There's some economics behind all this.

"Healthy foods are generally more expensive,'' Kuby said. And food stamp benefits are based on household size and income.

She noted that the average benefit in Arizona is about $360 a month. "You can't feed yourself on that,'' she said.

Biasiucci agrees on that point.

"The dollars aren't enough to feed you and your family wholly,'' he said. "The point of SNAP is people are struggling, you need to give them a hand-up, you need to make sure there's food on the table in that state of struggle.''

But he said that just underlines his point.

"These dollars need to be used for the essentials,'' Biasiucci said. The WIC list meets that definition in his view.

He said if people want something more, they can use whatever other money is available to them.

Kuby said if that's the direction he wants to go, perhaps the same restriction should be placed on the daily allowance of taxpayer funds that all lawmakers get while the Legislature is in session. That runs at least $3,500 a year, more for out-county lawmakers who need lodging.

"I like the idea of restricting legislators from using their per diem money on sugary snacks,'' she said. "And also on alcohol.''